TDB 9 The Conversion of Marcus Grodi part 4 (THE EUCHARIST PART 2)
In this episode, we continue our analysis of the second part of Marcus Grodi's evidence from the early church fathers that led to his conversion to Roman Catholicism: the Eucharist. We provide evidence from the early church that “the Eucharist” referred to the tithe offering for the poor and prayers of gratitude to the Lord, and not to the Lord’s Supper. Bread and wine were then taken from the offering and consecrated for use in the Supper. Contrary to the Roman Catholic claim that the consecration turns the bread and wine into the Eucharist, the early writers believed the consecration turned the Eucharist into the body and blood of Christ. The Eucharist came first, and when the offering was over, the consecration was spoken, followed by the meal. What was offered in the liturgy was the sacrifice of gratitude in the tithe, and the sacrifice was over before the words of consecration were spoken and Lord’s Supper began. And even after the consecration, the bread and wine were still said to be figures, types, antitypes and symbols of Christ’s body and blood. This liturgical order prevailed for 300 until the end of the 4th century when the liturgical sacrifice began to occur after the consecration, and the Roman Catholic Sacrifice of the Mass was born. The liturgical sacrifice of Christ’s body and blood during the Lord’s Supper is a late fourth century novelty, nothing more. It was neither instituted by Christ nor practiced by the early church.
Show Notes:
Marcus Grodi: The Early Church Fathers I Never Saw - The Journey Home (3-19-2007)
Irenæus, Against Heresies, Book I, chapter 13, paragraph 2 (174-189 AD)
“Pretending to offer the eucharist (εὐχαριστείν) in cups mingled with wine, and extending the word of invocation (ὲπικλήσεως) to unusual length…” (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church, Anterior to the Division of the East and West, volume 42, Five Books of S. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons Against Heresies, Rev. John Keble, M.A., translator, James Parker & Col, 1872, 41) [We will discuss the variance between Keble’s translation and Schaff’s translation in the next episode]
Irenæus, Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter 17 (174-189 AD)
Irenæus, Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter 18, paragraph 5 (174-189 AD)
“…that as bread from the earth, receiving the summons (έκκλησιν) of God, is no longer common bread but an Eucharist composed of two things, both an earthly and an heavenly one; so also our bodies, partaking of the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of Eternal Resurrection.” (Keble, 361) [Here Irenæus says we partake of the Eucharist, but by, implication only after the Eucharist is consecrated (see Book V, chapter 2, below), but that it was already the Eucharist when it was first summoned by the Lord for the tithe. Irenæus has established a parallel to make a point—when the bread is summoned for a tithe, it becomes heavenly, and not just earthly, for, though earthly, it is now set apart for heavenly purposes; so too, we though earthly, are set apart for a heavenly destiny when we receive the consecrated bread. Notable, indeed, that the bread becomes the Eucharist when it is summoned for a tithe, not when it is consecrated. We will discuss the variance between Keble’s translation and Schaff’s translation in the next episode.]
Irenæus, Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter 2, paragraph 3 (174-189 AD)
“Since therefore both the cup which is mingled and the bread which is made receiveth the Word of God, and the Eucharist becometh the body of Christ, and of these the substance of our flesh groweth and subsisteth: … even as the wood of the vine arched down into the ground beareth fruit in its due time, and the corn of wheat falling into the earth, and mouldering, is raised up by the Spirit of God, Who upholdeth all things: and afterwards by the Wisdom of God cometh to be used by men, and having received to itself the Word of God, becometh an Eucharist, i.e., the body and blood of Christ: so also our bodies, nourished thereby, and put into the ground, and dissolved therein, shall rise again in their own time, the Word of God giving them resurrection to the glory of God and His Father:…” (Keble, 453-54) [Here Irenæus makes a play on words — just as the bread of the tithe becomes the body of Christ when it receives the word of God {“this is My body; this is My blood”} at the consecration, so we will be raised up by the Word of God at the resurrection. Notable, indeed, that the bread was already the Eucharist when before it was consecrated. We will discuss the variance between Keble’s translation and Schaff’s translation in the next episode]
Five Books of S. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons Against Heresies, Rev. John Keble, M.A., translator, James Parker & Co., 1872
Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, Book I (202 AD)
Tertullian, On Prayer (208 AD)
Tertullian, Against Marcion, Book IV (208 AD)
Hippolytus of Rome, the Apostolic Tradition (c. 215 AD)
The Didascalia (230 AD)
Origen, Against Celsus, Book VIII
Cornelius, Bishop of Rome, letter to Fabian of Antioch (251-253 AD) [Recorded in Eusebius, Church History, Book 6, chapter 43]
Dionysius, bishop of Alexandria, letter [9] to Bishop Sixtus of Rome (254-258 AD) [Note: it is epistle IV in Migne’s series on the greek fathers; the letter is also recorded in Eusebius, Church History, Book 7, Chapter 9, where he refers to it as epistle VI]
The Canons of the Council of Nicæa (325 AD)
The Canons of the Council of Nicæa (Greek and Latin) (325 AD)
Julius, Bishop of Rome, to the Accusers of Athanasius (341 AD) [Recorded in Athanasius, Apology Against the Arians, Part 1]
Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 19 (c. 350 AD)
Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 23 (c. 350 AD)
Euchologion of Serapion of Thmuis (350-356 AD)
Gregory Nazianzen, Oration 2 (361 AD)
Gregory Nazianzen, Oration 18 (374 AD)
Gregory Nazianzen, Oration 45 (381 AD)
Gregory of Nyssa, On the Space of Three Days between the Death and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (382 AD)
Ambrose of Milan, Commentaries on Twelve Psalms of David, Psalm 38 (389 AD)
John Chrysostom, Treatise on the Priesthood, Book III (387 AD)
John Chrysostom, Homilies on Hebrews, Homily 17
Divine Liturgy of John Chrysostom (398 AD)